I’ve recently gone from near-term bullish to bearish on the PV stocks based on two trends I see emerging for 2008-2010 – first, that cells and panels will be in major oversupply by year-end 2008 and second, that demand is set for a pause due to declining or delayed incentives in Germany, Spain, and the US.
I’ve compiled a table of YE capacity for 2008 – 2010 for over 90 manufacturers of solar cells (see bottom of article), indicating my source for each company’s number. A solid starting source is the Lehman Bros 11/1/07 report initiating coverage on the sector. However, that report is already outdated and its cell capacity data somewhat incomplete to begin with; I’ve relied on more current data from a wider set of sources including company earnings reports, presentations, websites, or other press articles.
Supply and Demand
Bottom line: by the end of this year, 2008, cell producers will have installed capacity of 12.2 GW annual production according to present manufacturer plans. When you add in solar thermal capacity (Ausra, Schott) that number grows to 12.9 GW. Looking ahead, the 2009 end-year production capacity is simply enormous, at 17.2 GW. Is this a problem? Oh, yes, when you look at the demand estimates. Match the year-end 2008 capacity of 12.2GW with 2009 demand: the EPIA optimistic (“policy-driven”) estimate of 2009 world-wide demand is 4.3GW. Lehman calls it 4.8GW. Merrill Lynch has 5.2GW. A Q-cells presentation referred to a UBS number of 8GW. Even if you de-rate the 12.2GW number to account for “actual” vs. “nameplate” capacity; even if you attempt to adjust for “press-release” vs. “actually built” capacity, the numbers are still very out of balance. Even the most optimistic 2009 demand guesses fall far short of what the industry intends to produce.
The PV industry is heading for at least 50-100% capacity oversupply.
To put that in context, consider that stock prices in the similarly fast-growing LCD panel industry regularly drop in half, or double, as the industry’s supply and demand move out of balance (up or down) by a mere 10%. The situation quickly approaching in the PV business is much more dramatic. While there have been recent rumblings about oversupply, I expect the 2008 installed capacity number of 12.2 GW to come as a surprise to many. Lehman, for example, as recently as their 11/1/07 report, has 2008 end-year production capacity at 7.8GW.
What’s changed?
While manufacturers have been aggressively ramping for the last 18 months, since October 2007, the rate of capacity increase announcements has recently accelerated to new highs. Not only does everyone want in to PV, but they all know they need to scale up to top-10 status in order to stay viable. In addition, PV has relatively low barriers to entry. Taiwan manucfacturers, for example, see PV as a new opportunity requiring less investment and less risk than offered by the chip/components businesses and are now moving in. They will not abandon a fast-growing market to the mainland. See, for example, Gintech’s 2008 plans for 580MW. The Chinese producers have recently been accelerating plans to maintain their scale advantage, and thin-film companies are accelerating plans in order to leverage their cost advantage. Silicon-based manufacturers are increasing thin-film investments as a risk mitigation measure. Second tier players understand the need to achieve scale; I’ve seen no less than three companies indicating they intend to be #3 in the industry in a couple years. At the same time production plans are accelerating, the world-wide subsidy picture is somewhat slowing. In Germany, feed-in tariffs for new projects decline annually, but there are plans (based on biennial review of the EEG program) to speed up the decrease, ultimately to 9.5% annual declines for large projects. Whether this begins in 2009 or 2010 is unclear, but it will certainly pressure the economics of projects and, thus, the price points of suppliers. The Spanish situation is similar. There is a present burst to get projects turned up by this September in advance of legislative changes to reduce tariffs by roughly one-third. In the US, of course, the demand picture is completely unclear since Congress failed to address PV incentives in the recent energy bill. My guess is that in an election year, with a poor economy, and a recently-demonstrated lack of political support, the industry will be lucky merely to see present incentives extended a few years.
Poly – Enough already!
What about polysilicon? Some industry participants and analysts believe that “constrained” poly supplies will limit cell production to sane levels. Perhaps, in 2008, but not in 2009. Lehman (and other) analysts contend that poly prices will stay strong throughout ‘08 and that somehow, this is an indicator of a healthy market for PV. I believe that’s incorrect. Spot poly prices are a lousy indicator of end demand; they are, however, a good indicator of producer manufacturing plans. To me, they highlight a looming, large margin problem for producers. Given large, unused cell capacity, and rapidly growing poly capacity, I believe the industry will see two distinct margin effects. First, as poly supplies increase, cell production will increase as capacity is enabled. Cell production will rise to an oversupply level as manufacturers must put their recently invested capital to work. Poly prices will remain firm as cell production rises. Cell ASPs will fall as oversupply is reached. Margins will be compressed. The second margin effect will come into play as poly production continues to rise (the industry expects poly production to attain oversupply levels by 2010 or sooner). Spot poly prices will contract severely, possibly below contract poly prices (spot’s around $300-$400, but was as low as $35 before the boom. I believe contract is around $70-ish). In this case, as cell ASPs continue to erode, some manufacturers may be trapped between their slow-changing contract poly prices and declining spot cell prices, as other manufacturers compete with cheaper poly purchased on the spot market. This sort of whipsaw price action, as supply/demand trends vacillate, plays havoc with margins. Ultimately, things will settle down with both poly and cell markets in oversupply until demand catches up.
For the last year, the attention of analysts has been focused on poly pricing and whether manufacturers have “secured” their poly supply for 07 and 08, as each manufacturer ramps their capacity assuming unlimited demand. This is a dangerously backward-looking view. Analyst focus needs to shift from yesteryear’s poly problem to this year’s supply/demand imbalance problem. The key question for 2008/2009 margins is this: which ASP declines faster – poly? or cells? I believe that, as increasing poly supplies enable cell overproduction, and as cell manufacturers keep producing, we will see cell ASPs drop much faster than poly. Look at the numbers yourself, and just think through the likely scenarios.
2008 Situation
I’ve focused on end-year 2008 production capacity with physical oversupply in 2009. What about 2008 supply/demand? Lehman estimates 2008 demand at 3.5GW, growing from 2007’s 2.4GW. Lehman sees 2007 endyear capacity at 5.3GW and, to their credit, identifies oversupply as a potential 2008 issue in the cell market. Simply put: 2008 may already see potential oversupply of up to 40-50%. I can only assume many believe that in 2008 actual cell production will still be constrained by poly shortages. I would point out that poly shortages are extremely unlikely to prevent meeting 2008 demand levels (only 3.5GW) although they may prevent suppliers shipping at max capacity levels. Hence, in 2008 investors will already start to see the choice suppliers face in committing to overproduction and weakening margins, or idle capacity… and weakening margins.
Manufacturer Behavior
One should not assume that manufacturers will see the problem coming and adjust their capacity plans accordingly. They will not. In rapidly growing industries (I’ve personally watched this in ethanol, LCD panels, disk drives, and housing), manufacturers set goals on desired market share several years out. They must plan to achieve sufficient scale and share in the market as it will exist when the capacity is built. This invariably leads to oversupply in the near-term and dropping ASPs and margins as the market shakes out who will ultimately lead the industry. The PV business is no different. Major participants are making GW-level production plans (STP, Sharp, Q-cells; published) in anticipation of grid parity. Someday, it will likely payoff. Near-term, however, there will be oversupply and margin compression. Consider the timeline to reach 2008 end-year capacity. I believe PV capacity has a roughly 18 month timeline from plan to turn-up. Plans, budget, financing for this year’s capacity were set last year. Buildings are getting built already. Production equipment orders presumably have 6-9 month leads and have either been placed or will be 1Q08. Capacity turn-up in 3Q-4Q 2008. Basically, unless manufacturers start canceling equipment orders now, the die will be cast. However, I believe no one will cancel anything since, at the moment, the industry is still in a state of Spanish mania.
Stock impact and timing… the ethanol example
So, what to do with the stocks? At the moment, traders and momentum are in control of solar stocks. When will fundamentals start hitting them? I find the ethanol industry provides the best and most recent example. By the end of 2006, it was apparent that the ethanol industry was headed for oversupply as high ethanol prices stimulated investment. Through all of 2007, ethanol prices fell in anticipation, bottoming at cash cost near $1.55 in October ‘07. Ethanol stocks fell as well, all year long, in anticipation of an oversupply which won’t actually be cresting until 1H08 as new plants complete. The stock trend shifted downward a full year before the actual supply/demand imbalance peaked, and the stocks kept moving downward as the situation clarified. Now, ethanol prices and the stocks are both starting to rebound, looking ahead as the new RFS standard and declining investment should restore market balance by 2010 or so. In the case of PV, the Spanish market is working its way through a near-term peak right now as projects need to be turned up by Sep 2008, when tariffs drop from .44 eurocents to perhaps .31 eurocents. Working that wave back in time, panel orders to suppiers are presumably peaking in 4Q07/1Q08 for this hot sector of the market. There is hope for a similar wave of projects in 2H08 in anticipation of German subsidies declining. In both Germany and Spain, I believe 2008 sees installation peaks in anticipation of tariff reductions and the stocks will soon need to start factoring this in. Overall, without attempting to time the market, I don’t anticipate having to wait very long before momentum gives way to doubt in these stocks; I think they start looking ahead this quarter (1Q08).
In my view, there will be four levels of stock reactions, from most negative to least negative, basically driven by the company’s industry position. Worst hit, IMHO, will be the non-integrated silicon-based producers in the supply chain: LDK, SOLF, WFR, JASO, etc. Vertically integrated crystalline silicon producers will be second worst; the smaller they are the worse off they’ll be. ESLR, SPWR, STP, YGE, etc should all react. Thin-film may have the least negative reaction because, as low cost producers, they should fare relatively better in a downturn even though their ASPs will drop as fast as the next guy’s. Nonetheless, I think FSLR gets hit hard due to overvaluation and growing recognition that Nanosolar has a fundamentally better approach. (i.e., FSLR is king of a time window). The fourth class of stock reaction is actually positive: companies like Akeena (AKNS) actually benefit from panel price wars. Sunpower, because a significant portion of revenue comes from project business, also benefits and this somewhat offsets the hit they’ll take as a manufacturer.
What could prevent oversupply?
What could turn this around? This would require either a large reduction in supply, which I don’t see manufacturers planning, or a very large increase in demand. A multi-GW increase in demand would require significant legislative support around the world – in 2008 – relying extensively on new money for feed-in tariffs, in advance of oversupply conditions. Given the likely world economic situation in 2008, I don’t see governments deciding to massively increase 20-yr PV subsidy payouts this year. Furthermore, it’s in governments’ interest to let oversupply work its charms on prices to help reduce the need for further subsidies. China is offered as a multi-GW source of demand, but China’s 2007 installations are on the order of 30MW; it will be several years before China is a significant source of demand regardless of government policy initiatives. Grid parity will ultimately solve oversupply, of course, but that’s not happening by 2009 and it may never happen for the crystalline silicon-based suppliers. Finally, consider the behavior of large project investors as they sense that prices are starting to fall. Their economic motivation will be to increase project returns by delaying commitments and waiting for lower prices (just like prospective homebuyers in the US housing market are waiting at present); this will of course exacerbate price declines. Basically, I don’t see anything solving the situation in 2008; the degree of oversupply is simply too large.
Conclusion
I’m not a pessimist on PV; there’s basically infinite demand, post-parity, at sufficiently high scale and low enough prices. But the industry will have its share of booms and busts along the way, and right now, we’re heading for a “bust” even as the current headlines all say “boom”. It won’t happen overnight; it’ll take a few quarters to develop, but it is coming.
The PV industry is headed for a margin bust, shake out, and consolidation phase.
Final note: I’m not even going to talk about 2010, with current manufacturer intent in excess of 22 GW capacity. We simply won’t get there.
Disclosure: I intend to trade various PV stocks, primarily with a short bias, over the course of 2008.
Source notes: LB – Lehman Bros, PR=Company press release, NREL=National Renewable Energy Lab report on thin-film commercialization, ER=Company earnings release.
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January 3, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Thanks for a great article. I notice you left off Stirling Engine technology and Brightsource (400 MW) from the solar thermal section, probably because you feel delays are likely to push them both past 2010 for launch, and I agree. Stirling could add 350 MW or more at some point, though the little recent news indicates delays as initial test units are deployed, California considers extending property tax breaks for solar thermal beyond 2009, and Federal renewable energy bills stall.
I’ll keep your article on file as a base for further research and the most comprehensive list I have seen.
January 3, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Greetings Mr. Ball
Thank you for the excellent summary of the the current and future of the PV supply. I agree that a correction will occur in margins and thus valuation of PV companies. Youi have to love the competiveness of this industry and hence technology and price improvements to follow.
Long Term what do you see the per watt production cost of Thin Film Technology. Also what prevents the Thin Film Players increasing yields to 15-20%?
Currently the Lithium-Ion Battery world is on fire with advanacments. One that appears to be a game changer was by the Stanford reacher Yi Cui announcing a 10X increase in battery storage using Silicion nanaowires.
Can this technology be commercialzed? when? how costly?
Poetential to be the Holy Grail for hybrids and electric vechilcles.
Looking forward to your next post.
Best Wishes
Shaun
January 3, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Excellent exhaustive list Jerome. I’ve had similar thoughts and am a bull on solar in general. But I expect periods of times over next decade where we have overcapacity. My thesis has been enough capacity is being built for demand for say 2012+ in the next 2 years. And this will cause price wars and the strong survive… and a lot of consolidation. But getting the timing down of when the stock reflect this is tricky. I’ve also been warning about ASPs dropping as these tiny players dump supply of panel on the market. But in a mania as we are in now in solar, no one listens
and again I am a bull overall. The one variable is the demand dynamic – while supply is more easier to have a timeline on, demand does have some variables i.e. how quickly does China adopt, does anyone other than CA in the USA begin to adopt and how quickly etc. But great work overall. The stocks reflect none of this now.
January 3, 2008 at 7:35 pm
thx for the comments, I’d love to hear any further detailed data you guys have about anyone in the industry; I’m still in data collection mode myself. Timing will be interesting; I’ll be listening for everyone’s guidance on ASPs etc. I also think the next batch of analyst reports just can’t go on ignoring supply/demand… OTOH, i’ve certainly shot myself in the foot before (long or short) by being “right” when the market still thought i was “wrong”, so i’m not sure I want to rush into shorting these guys yet. I have some starter positions I’m willing to sit on for a while, though.
Regarding George/Traders’ point on competitiveness and the strong, that’s one critical factor that PV faces that ethanol didn’t: everybody makes ethanol pretty much the same way (till cellulosic comes around), so supply/demand swings hit everyone the same way. In PV, tho, we could go into oversupply and when prices get driven to marginal cost for the cheapest supplier, that leaves (I’m thinking) the thermal and thin-film guys looking shaky for awhile but still standing, while the crystalline producers get blown up badly and consolidated down to a level where the rooftop market can support the survivors.
January 3, 2008 at 8:08 pm
jerome, the one guy I trust in this industry Dr Shi from STP says ASPs are holding flat at least for now. I find that interesting with the data coming out and just the demand/supply dynamics. Jeffries on the other hand said asp’s dropping 15% in 2008 for panels, 10% for cells, and 5% for wafers. Like yourself the interesting thing I have found is polysilicon shortages while terrible for gross margins have in a way helped slow down the avalanche of oversupply. In fact spot prices now hitting 400kg! Now with your list of 90 PV makers I see why.
As for shorting, at some point it will lead to eventual massive gains but a lot of people tried to short dot coms in 99 and lost all their money, and again in 00 and those people lost their money too. You can be correct conceptually but dirt poor after trying to short a mania.
I would remain patient, there will be many opportunities to play the short side… sectors like this wont die overnight… every correction will be followed by a new round of hope and denial etc. When I see stuff like DSTI and ASTI flying I know we are in true mania stage. According to your data with 25 MW of production in 2009 and 2010 the world has about 70 ASTIs and DSTIs. Only 2 of them are public though and they get run up 100%s of percent. Can you imagine all these enterpeneurs who just wish they can get public on a US exchange so they can ‘cash out’ in time?
January 3, 2008 at 8:13 pm
p.s. I linked to your post from my blog, I posted similar thoughts in a “summary” fashion a few months ago. I could not comment on Seeking Alpha for some reason on your article. The one thing I did not consider was the double margin effect, hitting the cell makers first… good point there.
I am hoping they come out with UltraShort Solar ETF by 2009
I can imagine a slew of solar ETFs on the long side hitting the markets in 2008 – yet another step of mania haha
January 3, 2008 at 8:46 pm
[...] reason for that post, is to point out an excellent blog post [PV Industry Oversupply in 2008] who writes in even greater detail the same thoughts I espoused above and for anyone either in the [...]
January 3, 2008 at 8:56 pm
[...] reason for that post, is to point out an excellent blog post [PV Industry Oversupply in 2008] who writes in even greater detail the same thoughts I espoused above and for anyone either in the [...]
January 3, 2008 at 10:15 pm
I like the primary research you have compiled and the scenario you predict will undoubtedly plays out one day. However I suspect that the ‘demand’ surveys you quote are actually just old production surveys. The organisation that probably has the most experience and resources to predict the solar market is Photon International’s consultancy unit, its latest forecast is even higher than your figures, yet it is also predicting rising profit margins for suppliers through at least 2011. The reason is that as a percentage of total electricity generation capacity solar is still tiny and will be for at least the next five years. By their analysis the cost (not price) of solar is below the retail cost of electricity for about 200-400TWh of supply, equivalent to 150-300GW capacity. Even with some room for error that does go to explain why Q-Cells and Suntech are already sold out for 2008. Predicting future demand is of course difficult as it depends on political wills and technological advances. However as the geographic obtainable market continues to expand beyond just Germany and Japan with other major countries like Spain, France, Italy, Korea and the US starting their growth phase I would not count on the growth in demand falling any time soon.
January 4, 2008 at 12:44 am
I would love to see a real economist take a look at the demand side – elasticity in PV is wildly non-classical. Demand is a function of subsidies (for now) which have country-specific factors (e.g., in Ger they drop pretty sharply in ‘09, in Spain they’re capped after “x” MW, in Italy they have small targets, in Japan they’ve been cut-out for residential) and a totally non-linear factor, which is the per-country value for grid-parity that causes demand to basically go to infinity as soon as the cost drops. Mind-boggling to try and unwind. But it leads to the reason why some of us are bearish short-term and bullish long-term.
I still think even though demand continually rises, with occasional political bumps, until grid parity happens, the question at each demand level will be what supply is chasing it. The LCD business from ‘03-’07 was a great example of this. Demand rose classically and continually in line with price declines, but supply came in vast chunks as each new $2B factory ramped up. So supply/demand balance kept bouncing around.
It’s funny because I look at 12GW and see “it’s too much” but I know in 5yrs time 100GW may not be enough (and we’ll all be better off for it, btw).
Photon Intl – I’ve not paid to see their research, but I perceive they are wildly-google-eyed optimist gunslingers out generating business cases for the project industry…. true? (somewhat tongue-in-cheek
January 4, 2008 at 1:43 am
First, this is one of the best analytical essays I have seen on Seeking Alpha.
I have suspected your oversupply thesis is correct, but have been puzzled by the lack of good data from the major research shops (such as Lehman). Your table is the best composite I have found.
The remaining question is the quality of the demand estimates. I would like to see the Photon data. I knew the analyst there at one point, Michael Rogol. I am not sure he is still there. If he is, he is one the smartest people I’ve met in the financial world, so I would at least take a hard look at his analysis before ruling it out.
I have been working on a similar analysis for the nuclear energy & uranium industry. Long term, I believe both nuclear and solar will grow in to permanent parts of our global energy portfolio. But both sectors have experienced valuation bubbles as investors always assume they can capture the next 50 years of value creation with an investment today.
Solar and uranium valuations got way ahead of themselves. Uranium is a separate discussion, but the same dynamics are at play — investor speculation, optimism, climate hysteria, etc.
January 4, 2008 at 2:00 am
[...] When we (human beings) just started making use of solar energy, bankers started compalining about saturation. Simply put, 12GW are not enough to run the computers of the analysts in the mentioned banks to predict demand.
Solar energy is an alternative energy. Did I say alternative!! Sorry. All ations are shooting to have Solar as the source of energy. Oil will be the alternative energy with limited use to highly valued industries. In less than 20yrs, the price of oil will be as precious as diamonds, platinum, uranium, and other scarce commodoties.
Nations are going to tap into investing and consuming products derived from solar. Solar is the next 50 years “thing.” Future nations who didn’t put their resouces to work on solar, are equivalent to current nations that don’t have Oil.
The ultimiate objective from the Solar power is simply to power every need that depends on energy. Now, with companies focusing on nanotechnology, the likes of Nanosolar and Daystar, expect solar to be spread on and in everything. For instance, cars will be painted with solar paint that generates electricity to power the fuel cell catalist, or fill up the lithium batteries.
The near (< 10 yrs) term objectives from the solar power is to provide sufficient energy to satisfy individual consumer needs. All these cities in all nations have to start seeing their lights, hot water, water purification, air conditioning, refrigeration, etc… all come from solar.
Mid term (10 to 20 yrs) objectives is to have a complete transportation systems (like electric trains, busses, cars) that run on solar. Then, after that, we need to transform many industries to solar dependency.
Knowing the above objectives, where do these analysts see 12GW as a oversuply. I am not getting it.
January 4, 2008 at 2:12 am
I appreciate the viewpoint of the above commenter, and agree with it from a long term perspective. As an investor, however, we need to realize that it is precisely this LT optimism, without a sense of the real timing involved, that actually creates the near term bubbles, and then bursts those bubbles.
For a long time, I was puzzled that no one – and I mean no one – put out a relatively simple analysis: How much silicon / PV cells would it take to produce a given % of our electricity supply? Make whatever assumptions you want about efficiency, etc. How much silicon would it take?
I quickly realized that this is because no one, up to about now, wants the truth to get in the way of an optimistic, save-the-planet storyline.
The problem is, this analysis is so glaringly NEGATIVE once you do it, it highlights both the problem for solar overall, and the opportunity for businesses. Solar energy can grow at 30% a year for 30 years and still contribute a very very small % of our electricity. That’s both the problem and the opportunity. Existing solar companies can grow like crazy because the numbers right now are so small.
However, while 5 or 10 years is not a long time in the grand scheme, from an investment standpoint, when we are taking risks that require 20%, 30% or greater returns, that time frame eats up value very quickly.
Mr. Ball was in the telecom industry for many years. Those of us who spent time in that industry watched while players like Global Crossing built very cool global fiber systems, and then got overbuilt by others when the buildout costs dropped drastically. Similarly, we could see the current lineup build out very nice silicon facilities, and then watch as… the global energy giants?… scoop up these facilities for 50 cents on the dollar in 5 years.
No one ever argued that the Internet wouldn’t be huge, but ask Gerald Levin about how valuations (AOL…) can get ahead of reality.
January 4, 2008 at 4:21 am
I think that a3arar doesn’t quite understand the boom & bust nature of the energy business. J Coombes, you sort of attend to that, but … When you look at the history of solar energy as an investment, it has already experienced at least one (perhaps more) boom:bust:boom cycle. The best analogue really is the oil business. The 1970s boom led to the 1980s bust. One can debate the reasons for the cycle (OPEC, fiscal policy, etc.), but you can’t debate the effects. In the circumstances of this discussion, by effects I refer to things like mania, malinvestment, and disillusionment. Or perhaps more bluntly, wealth creation and wealth loss.
Solar investment is quite clearly in a mania phase. I have been too early in my own bearishness, but the market is a quick teacher of lessons. The cliche that the market really can remain irrational far longer than I can remain solvent has never rung more true in my mind. At some point, perhaps in 2008, the bloom is going to start coming off the solar rose. As any trader knows, once the momentum changes from upwardly moving prices to downward corrections, this shift takes a good long time to cycle out. The question we face now as traders and market timers is in fact timing the top of the cycle.
I am a firm believer in energy diversity. Solar is part of the solution, but from a percentage contributed standpoint, it really is a small part of the solution. It will be such for decades to come. The problem confronting society by petrochemicals is that they are so flexible. A barrel of oil is cracked into literally dozens of subcomponents. A ray of sunlight just ain’t there, and it’ll be a long long time before we have the technology to harness photons in the same manner as we do carbon. Our oil dependance runs in large percentages to transportation fuels, and quite frankly solar power is unlikely to ever displace this. Grid power, yes, and to the degree that transportation (in the USA) migrates to grid solutions like light rail and plug-in electric, solar can impact transportation. However, the wholesale changes to American lifestyles and urban planning required to make these a feasible solution are dramatically underestimated in their duration or impact by proponents of solar. I just don’t see solar as a near-term solution to the problem of transportation fuels (nor do I see ethanol there, but that’s different discussion). Certainly not by 2012 or 2022, but perhaps by 2112.
Point being, that solar is really only a small part of the overall solution, but you would never know this by watching the public markets for equities. There are some incredibly well-managed and technologically advanced solution providers among solar energy investments. There are also some real dogs with decades of fleas. Perform a modicrum of diligence, and you’ll quickly see that the worst of the worst and the most speculative issues are in the process of receiving manic attention. It seems like every day a 10% gainer can be found among the worst and most speculative solar issues: ASTI, DSTI, HOKU, CTDC, SPIR, and I’m deliberately sidestepping the worst OTC dogs.
By all appearances we are near a top in the current boom phase of the solar investment mania. When the shit is floating, you are undoubtably near the top. But like the dot.com boom, this could be a multi-year top. Given the multiple decades and even centuries going forward when solar will grow and provide massive returns upon investment, a few year top to the boom:bust cycle is the blink of an eye. However, rest assured, solar is a mania, and like all manias there will be a corrective phase that washes away the malinvestment and rewards the nimble. From the ashes of the coming correction, the next boom will arise.
January 4, 2008 at 5:09 am
Just about everyone who had try to smash solars have had their arses backfired. And you shall too.
2008 will be a great year for all solars. I believe most stocks will double by year end.
http://www.beanieville.blogspot.com
January 4, 2008 at 5:11 am
You are expecting PVs to be a commodity way too soon. Once we get to grid parity (which won’t be long) demand will go thru the roof. STP have already stated they are essentially at grid parity.
http://www.beanieville.blogspot.com
January 4, 2008 at 5:13 am
mofo fader,
Cmon man, are you insane? Solars a bubble? The real bubble was the internets without earnings. Solars barely started. 3rd inning is where i put it.
http://www.beanieville.blogspot.com
January 4, 2008 at 5:37 am
I doubt the accuracy of the demand. You did not put up the number for 2007 demand. Provided that the supply of 2007 is a half of 2008, the estimated supply for 2007 should be around 6.5G, which even oversupplies 2008 demand(3.8G).
I just don’t get it.
Could anybody explan?
January 4, 2008 at 5:43 am
well, beanieville, at least we agree about “short AAPL”
tho I’m holding off on that one, at the moment. No guts, no blown-off body parts.
January 4, 2008 at 5:53 am
For 2007 demand, I have (see the links article for extended tables):
Author
UBS 2800MW
Merrill 2800MW
Lehman 2361MW
EPIA 2200MW
average 2540MW
Hopefully some industry body will have 2007 actuals before too long.
JY, so compare this 2007 demand with end-of-2006 capacity, which Lehman pegged at 3477MW. It looks like 2007 should have had oversupply, but instead the industry had idle capacity because there wasn’t enough poly to go around. Hence the interest in when the poly shortage eases. It has been masking the fact that everyone is building up capacity while preserving the illusion of a well-balanced cell market.
January 4, 2008 at 6:02 am
J Coombes – you’re right! how could I forget the fiber saga in my own neck of the woods. Internet data was going to grow 100% annually pretty much forever, as I recall, and Corning/JDSU/GLBC/etc sure were happy about it. Years later dark fiber was still spanning the globe waiting for the bits to show up …
I also recall we created an “oversupply” in the market for software developers. Hacking the crap out of that particular market was less humorous.
January 4, 2008 at 7:12 am
well, interesting, I just saw a reprint: (solar-in-china.blogspot.com)
Washington, Jan 1 (ANI): Scientists have said that the production of solar cells known as photovoltaics (PVs) jumped up to 3,800 megawatts worldwide, a total jump of 50 percent, in 2007.
more than I thought, but consistent with fast runup in capacity (2006 end-year + new cap coming on-line during 2007). Still no word on demand. I.e., how much is sitting in mfg. inventory and in distribution channels.
January 4, 2008 at 5:13 pm
I don’t understand why solar thermal (CSP) gets a mention here (e.g. Ausra, Stirling, BrightSource, SkyFuel, Solel). It does not compete with PV, which is a retail technology; CSP is a wholesale technology, at a completely different price point. CSP production does not reduce PV demand until it gets so large that consumers that do PV for guilt start to consider the grid green enough (that will be a while). In California, CSP is getting a real push because of the 20% renewable portfolio standard, and the CEC is thinking of raising that to 33% by 2020.
It is important to remember that PV economics are dependent on a number of factors besides subsidies:
1. High insolation (e.g. California, but not Japan or Germany)
2. High retail electricity rates (e.g. California and Japan–I don’t know about Germany)
3. Time-Of-Use net metering (e.g. California–I don’t know about the others)
4. Government/utility subsidies/rebates
5. High electric use efficiency (e.g. California, Japan, Germany, but not most of the US) (Why? because if you’re 12,000 kWh/capita/year instead of 7,000, then it is much better return to invest in efficiency than PV)
Of these I would say time-of-use net metering is probably about as important as subsidies/rebates. Being able to sell at $0.29 and buy at $0.09 makes a big difference in economics (and yet it makes economic sense for the utilities because of the cost of peaking power). Thus government could increase PV demand by mandating TOU net metering in more places.
January 4, 2008 at 5:18 pm
One final thought with respect to “grid parity”:
I believe we have learned a lesson time and again from schemes that promise to be the “next big thing”: If you can’t put the “next big thing” in to a details numerical analysis, where the assumptions can be tested and debated, then it means that the real growth is still quite a ways out (at least several years). That also implies that the current crop of players may not be the successful ones.
I have read a lot of Wall Street research and industry studies. I’ve read a lot of descriptions of the assumptions for “grid parity”, but in general, the analysis is either someone else’s, or its left out of the report.
The result is that very few people understand all of the assumptions that go in to a calculation of power costs. So when people say “grid parity is coming”, its usually just a repeat of what someone else said, rather than their own analysis. Factoids pop up, like “Japan hit grid parity” or “Denmark gets 20% of their energy from wind”, but these are one-off cases. Japan has no native energy sources, so its power costs are like 3x what we pay. I think you’ll usually find that the places where unsubsidized grid parity is closest are the places that are actively pursuing nuclear power. Japan, China.
Bottom line for me is: Beware claims such as “grid parity” or “solar revolution” what there is limited analysis included with the claim.
January 4, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Beanie, that’s the best response you have, to denigrate the messenger? So you’re disputing that investments do not go through a boom and bust cycle? Or are you suggesting that something is different here, this time? I lived through the dot.com bubble at ground zero. You’re mistaken if you believe that none of them had earnings. CSCO was raking in the money, with astronomical growth. The catalyst will be different, but the results will be the same, which is a supply:demand imbalance destined to shake out the marginal players in the market.
Jerome, I have been following solar and alt.energy for quite a few years. Your analysis here is some of the best I have seen, amateur or professional. I think you’re asking the right questions. I say keep one eye on the subsidies. Merkel’s cabinet in Germany is going to scale back the EEG sooner than projected. Without subsidies, the demand curve slows dramatically, and grid parity gets pushed back by years.
January 4, 2008 at 6:30 pm
thks, all. clearly the demand side is something i should try to go look at. For one thing, my present view is that the project market (say, 1MW on up) constitutes a large percentage of demand for all PV, from, say, 2008 on. This gets to earl killian’s point – I’m assuming the market is shifting from residential/business to larger projects and, therefore, CSP/CPV need to be considered as substituting technologies. If a project developer in Spain can choose between 30,000 panels from Suntech or the equivalent MW from Ausra, the substitutability certainly matters to whether or not the crystalline manufacturers are in oversupply.
At the moment, tho, I have no data at all on how much of PV goes to residential/commercial versus project. Is the project business 5% or 55% in 2008? I’d appreciate any pointers on this.
January 4, 2008 at 7:54 pm
If PV goes into utility scale projects, it is going to have to come down a lot in price. Perhaps thin-film can get there, but I don’t think conventional PV can for many years. For example, Stirling Energy’s 500-850MW for SCE, and 300-900MW for SDG&E are guessed to be around $1.40/Watt ($700 million for 500MW). (I say guessed because the numbers have not been released because SCE and SDG&E did not go to the CPUC for a waiver to pass on extra cost to consumers — apparently this technology is at California grid parity already.) Ausra has estimated it could supply 80% of California’s electrical demand (both daytime and nighttime, i.e. baseload) at $0.067/kWh. That’s pretty impressive. NREL estimates CSP will get to $0.07/kWh, which is right in line with Ausra’s number. Other estimates for CSP today are more like $0.15/kWh, which sounds high, but since CSP delivers at the time utilities need it most (they often pay $0.25/kWh for power during the afternoon), this is a good deal.
I haven’t paid that much attention to thin-film, e.g. Nanosolar, though I would like to. Does anyone have a $/kW or $/kWh for their utility customer solar farm? Can thin-film come close to CSP $/kW or $/kWh? If so, I would love to hear about it.
By the way, using the Stirling Energy Systems figures at
http://www.power-technology.com/projects/victorville/specs.html
1,780GWh / year in 1800 ha means that this technology could
power the U.S. (3,800 TWh in 2005) using 15,000 mi^2. Ausra
estimated they could do the same in 8,200 mi^2. CSP technology has the potential to solve our greenhouse gas emissions problem. After the election, it might take off if the next President is not hostile to addressing the crisis.
January 5, 2008 at 3:34 am
Wow – great thought pattern
Air conditioning and pool pumps use half of annual electricity in our climate.
A PV system combined with efficient motors would be cool and provide reduced base load for utilities.
The concept of accelerated innovation and massive investment is awesome.
January 5, 2008 at 8:09 am
This article is incredibly useful. I would love to hear more about the weaknesses of particular vendors.
I would also like to point out that, as the article suggests, the short thesis can succeed regardless of whether there is over-supply of photovoltaic cells in general. Right now the barriers to entry are low, and a whole menagerie of promoters (including some former apparel manufacturers) are jumping into the business. Eventually, technological advances will leave many of them in the dust, with massive outmoded capital investments. And the largest manufacturers will drive costs down in a way that smaller manufacturers can’t match. Right now any idiot can make money in this business, but that can’t last. I find it strange to see fly-by-night promoters grouped together with MEMC, which has GE-level management and six-sigma quality control.
January 5, 2008 at 9:58 am
I started writing a lengthy rebuttal on this article. In trying to work it out, I failed. Why? Because you are “not even going to talk about 2010.” You are purely thinking short term here, because by ‘09 the polysilicon famine will be on its way out, prices will come down dramatically, and demand will explode (it’s already exploding at today’s prices).
Well, it’s your money, but I suggest that you are a fool if you short a solar stock in today’s climate, especially based on short term thinking. You might win some, but it won’t take too many big movements up in order to put you out of business. More and more people and institutions are looking at Solar long-term every day, and the money is following in, not for today, but for the long term.
As to your specific picks, though you state your belief that ASPs will drop faster than poly prices, you go on to place LDK and WFR at the head of your list of companies that will be primarily affected by the shortage of polysilicon. This does not follow. In the case of WFR, they are currently a leader in its manufacture, and in the case of LDK, they are on a path towards a future leadership role in Solar Poly Production.
In my search for future industry leaders, LDK Solar is my most confident pick (particularly at today’s prices).
Do you really want to short a company that is positioned to control a significant part of the market in the manufacture of polysilicon that you admit is the key ingredient of the Chinese Solar industry?
Do you think it wise to short a company working with top names like Flour, Sunways, and GT Solar in the development of Billion Dollar polysilicon facility which is ultimately due to produce 17000 Tons of Poly per year?
Is it wise to short a company that went from 2-6000 employees in two years, led by an entrepeneur who has already built up a company from scratch and which now employs 12000 people?
Is it wise to short a company that’s been driven well below its fundamental value by an allegation, for which the company has since been cleared?
Well, go ahead. Like I said, it’s your money.
BTW, I noted that on your datasheet, you listed nothing for LDK. I’d be curious about the ommission, but I guess I’m not suprised.
The estimated Wafer numbers for LDK for 2008 are 510 MW to 530 MW, and 1,050 MW to 1,150 MW in 2009 with gross margin in 2009 being 42% to 50%. Polysilicon production capacity for 2009 is slated to be 5,000 metric tons to 7,000 metric tons. These numbers are from LDK.
X-Posted to http://americansolareconomy.blogspot.com
January 5, 2008 at 7:04 pm
As one of the largest buyers of solar panels, I agree with you fully. I would not get distracted by the total cell processing capacity this will always be large. The bigger trend is that the crystalline providers will be humbled because they allowed the “alternatives” to crystalline being pushed by AMAT, First Solar, and other thin-film purveyors to get the momentum they need to be serious players. As they have shown, doubling or tripling thin-film capacity is extremely easy compared to doing the same on the crystalline side. At this point, the thin-film guys are building like crazy and they will set hte floor on module prices.
I have no investment advice on where stock prices will go as I find they generally move more on momentum than fundamentals right now. I am happy to show you my data if you want it. You can contact me at jigar [at] sunedison.com
Best,
Jigar
January 6, 2008 at 6:46 am
I am not sure one can make any rational prediction about the solar industry (PV or CSP) in 2008-2010 without discussing several macro considerations:
Peak Oil – Many experts think that that phrase will replace Global Warming by the end of 2008. The price of oil will continue to soar. According to Boone Pickens, we are already past Peak;
Democrats in control of Congress & White House – The Oil Cartel administration will be thoroughly repudiated, and environmental concerns will finally move to the political forefront;
The 2008 Summer Olympics – As the World sees in High Definition all the trouble China has with its pollution — needing to shut down industry for weeks before to keep the athletes from gagging — all those nice Suntech solar panels on the roof of the stadium are going to get a lot of attention.
Bottom line, there is a Perfect Storm forming in the World Energy Paradigm in 2008-2010, and there will not be an over-supply of solar (either PV or CSP) in your lifetime.
Alan Beattie
PS I forgot to mention the dramatically changing energy demand curve, as China, India and others come on line.
January 6, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Nice analysis Jerome, thanks for publishing it. You’re right, it’s best to assume a trading posture on these stocks for now as we see events play out whether that be over or under supply.
January 6, 2008 at 6:02 pm
If the capacity projections made by Nanosolar are correct, it is clear that they will have an impact on the thin film market with the greatest impact perhaps being on First Solar. This is what concerned me from the day that Nanosolar made their announcement that they had commenced commercial production.
An important question is why they seem to be taking their time going public, when one considers the massive amount of riches that could ensure to those holding the initial stock. The CEO claims they have not had the time to even think about an IPO and have been fully focusing on getting their thin film printing technology into the commercialization phase. The founder is already quite wealthy, so maybe the lure of future potential riches doesn’t interest him as much as it might someone else. Just don’t know. Perhaps we just have to take his statements at face value.
Regardless of whether Nanosolar goes public they remain a threat to the other thin film makers of the world and perhaps the silcon based manufacturers as well.
Interesting that you mention JASO as one of the biggest losers, since they have a relatively low PEG ratio. This tells me that your analysis is clearly different than those analysts who are projecting high growth, which, after all drives the PEG ratio. It would be instructive to see a head to head comparsion of the various analyses.
Anyway, Jerome, thanks for this as you may be helping me to avoid a lot of pain and sorrow for 2008. 2007 was a very, very good year both both solar and me. I just hope I don’t look back next year and wished I had hel d more solar.
January 7, 2008 at 1:34 am
I’m very gratified to be drawing such a high class of commenters, pro- and anti-. I definitely look forward to more posting on Seeking Alpha, cross-posted here, and more comment discussion here.
I’ve a couple articles in mind coming up: first on SOLF who I believe has near-term issues, and definitely one on FSLR and the evolving thin-film situation, which has much grist for discussion.
ytterbius: I left LDK out simply because I was counting cell capacity (it seemed the easiest to get good data on; e.g., at the panel level there are all sorts of small private companies I won’t know about). LDK works at the wafer level, so if I were counting their capacity, and then their customers, I would be double-counting and producing an inaccurately large number. Details for future discussion, but I believe that in a oversupplied industry, when margins are compressed at each stage (poly, wafer, cell, panel, project) the players who art most vertically integrated will have the best chance at maintaining profitability (they have the most flexibility to cut margin). WFR and LDK simply aren’t vertically integrated; that’s my issue with ‘em. I don’t count myself in the LDK-is-inherently-evil camp on their inventory issues and the shorting frenzy there. I’m sort of anti-frenzy in general.
Allen Beattie – I happen to agree that post-peak oil helps drive solar (and ethanol and…) for many many years to come; we’re quickly reaching a point where the low-cost-status of coal is true but not relevant – the only politically acceptable coal will be coal+sequestration, which will not be producing any 4c/kwh energy. I’m tracking this right now in Texas (where I live). But “when” is the issue. I see problems with solar stocks in the period (i’m guessing) 1Q or 2Q 2008 thru sometime in 2009. By that point I’m guessing we have (hopefully) driving legislation in the US, a new country or two in EU, a post-recession mentality, and some clarity on PV technical evolution. I don’t think everyone comes out of this whole, however; I expect some of the small and fast guys to flame-out as thin-film and thermal drop the price-points, pretty much exactly as Matt G suggests. So maybe 2010 is a great year. 2009 looks to me like the peak oversupply year, barring demand spikes.
Jigar – I have a few hundred questions… will email
January 7, 2008 at 3:58 am
J Coombed
As an investor in early 00’s I use the Global Crossing example often when trying to explain this to newbies to investing… glad to see you wrote the same
*******
Mr. Ball was in the telecom industry for many years. Those of us who spent time in that industry watched while players like Global Crossing built very cool global fiber systems, and then got overbuilt by others when the buildout costs dropped drastically.
********
In most simplistic form, will the internet continue to explode for decade(s)? Will video usage make today’s usage seem like a drop in the bucket in a decade? Will we need so much more fiber capacity? All yes.
But in the race to criss cross the ocean’s floor with capacity, a series of companies was funded by cheap money – build it and “they will come”. And we had a massive glut. And many bankruptcies and companies whose assets were purchased for pennies on the dollar. And the companies who purchased these assets for pennies on the dollar will be the big winners as this fiber that was built and laid dark for half a decade is now coming into play. And more will be coming into play as finally we reach a point that fiber is needed. I find the parallels to solar striking (one could argue the fiber companies were not profitable and solar companies today are) but aside from that, the rest of the macro trend is no different. Will solar be a very large part of the energy consumption in 2 decades? Most certainly. But what form? (nano?) some disruptive technology? Will a company like STP be a top dog? Or will some shrewd serial acquirer be buying 20 of the “25 to 75 MW” companies (of the 90+!) in 2011 to create a nuevo powerhouse of solar capacity. All for pennies on the dollar? Somehow I think that will be possible. But that doesn’t mean STP fails. It simply means some of the eventual winners are probably companies or “assets” sitting on the side, waiting patiently for the eventual period of oversupply vs demand (however short run) when companies are forced into price wars, creating massive cash flow problems and a sturdy white knight will come to the rescue… although this knight only buys on the cheap.
January 7, 2008 at 4:10 am
Jerome, when you find 2007 “actual demand” anywhere, please shoot me a message. As everyone has said the “demand” is the big variable. With many variables attached. If crude falls back to $75-$85 for next 2 years with Western economies recession offsetting growth in China/India maybe the push to solar gets pushed back to the back of the room for USA – if crude gets to $150 and $5 gasoline becomes reality in USA, you will have the most brown (anti green) of republicans calling for solar panels on every roof by 2012.
Economics has a funny way of changing politics.
Also as I stated above, for every company you have found and is living and breathing today, I am sure there is an entrepeneur in China looking to make it rich (darn capitalists) and get onto the solar train, creating even more (over) supply in 2009-2010.
So what I am saying is neither supply nor demand for out years (3+) is knoweable but you did the best possible from what I have seen. I’d keep updating that chart quarterly.
p.s. short Apple? heresay!
January 7, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Thanks for an interesting article. I hope that you will return with an update.
If you read the analysis from Photon Consulting http://www.photon-consulting.com/en/solar_annual_2007/summary.htm you get some other data about the production capacity.
Your numbers:
2008 12,2 GWp
2009 16,7 GWp
2010 22,7 GWp
Photon Consulting:
2008 6,1 GWp
2009 10,2 GWp
2010 15,1 GWp
I can see than you have found a source for all the production. So should a believe some professional solar analysts or you: a stock trader with a background in the telecom business?
I’m a shareholder in Q-Cells an they also state their nominal capacity which is a about 25 % higher. I found some info about nominal capacity:
‘nominal capacity’ does not account for downtime factors such as machine cleaning and maintenance.
Perhaps you written the nominal capacity at the end of the year and not the actual production capacity?
You have included thermal solar. I am following that sector and there are more players. But it is a completely different technology to photovoltaic. You might as well have included windmills… Please don’t include thermal solar next time.
But thermal power can’t explain the difference: if we look at 2008 we get some very different data: your production estimate is twice as high! Something must be wrong at Photon Consulting or at you.
I don’t know if the guys from Photon Consulting have time for you. I hope you will ask them about the difference. We need to know to make the right decisions.
Perhaps the numbers are so different because Photon Consultings numbers are 6 moth old. The sector is moving very quickly…
January 9, 2008 at 3:09 am
To Jacob: I think you are wrong. Photon numbers are very close to the numbers in the article. The problem is you didn’t match the year numbers correctly because the numbers in the article are for year-end production, which you should match with the next year number from the photon consulting estimate.
For example: The 2008 number in the article (12,2 GWp) is for 2008 year end, and therefore should be compared to the 2009 production number from photon (10,2 GWp)
Production Year, Photon#, Jerome’s #
2009 10,2 12,2 GWp
2010 15,1 16,7 GWp
January 12, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Thank you for your very interesting analysis and discussion. I think your basic arguments here are flawed since the negative outlook is based on comparisons of the solar industry to other established markets, like LCD, which have completely different demand dynamics than the solar market currently does. The solar industry is currently based on government-sponsored demand fueled by clean energy initiatives/politics. And yet you analyze it as if it were similar to a consumer-driven market.
Ethanol, perhaps is a decent market to compare solar to, but the failure of ethanol is mainly a US phenomenon caused by an inept government. You didn’t see this type of bust in ethanol in Brazil, where the ethanol market has been doing fine for years. You also don’t have the type of “real” demand for ethanol like you do for solar, as ethanol, at as formulated by the US government, is not really a viable solution for clean energy.
Since solar demand is now primarily fueled by European/Asian countries, it’s doubtful we’ll see any “ethanol-like” bust in the solar market, since the main suppliers and “customers” are not in the US and therefore operate under different, and saner, business and political policies. More importantly, the demand is also not forced upon the market per se, like ethanol, since the rationale for solar and the benefits are so obvious, that everyone will use it assuming the price point is there.
Additionally, as others have pointed out you assume that excess manufacturing capacity will lead to an oversupply of PV end-products. However, there is no reason to believe to that excess manufacturing capacity, will lead to an oversupply of product, since quite simply there is not enough raw material (i.e. polysilicon) to even manufacture so much supply. So the fact is that much of this excess manufacturing capacity will lay idle and will not lead to any PV oversupply. These companies are building capacity for expected product ramps in five years, not for 2008, or 2009. Plus, what’s the use of oversupplying a market that is government-sponsored. It makes no sense. None of these Chinese companies will do what you suggest.
To argue that upcoming increased polysilicon supply will provide the raw material to run wild with PV production is wrong, because increased poly supply is actually good for this industry in that it will lower costs. There is absolutely no reason to believe that poly prices will decrease at slower rate than PV prices in case of increase poly supply and increased solar demand.
All in all, the main risk for PV players is simply competition from the thin-film industry and substantially lower oil prices. All other risk considerations are simply baseless, since the solar PV market is so tiny relative to the potential demand that we won’t see oversupply for decades.
As an aside, I lived thru the Internet boom and bust and since solar boom is completely different. I don’t remember being able to buy Internet equipment companies at 15X to 20X earnings when there were growing earnings at 100%+. In fact, nearly all of the companies in that industry never made a dime and came public at multi-billion dollar valuations. We are not even close to that type of mania yet in solars.
In the solar industry the valuations are still compeletely rational relative to earnings potential one year out and the market is still at the very beginning. I simply don’t see any signs of a bubble here. Of course, there will be corrections in this market, but I think these are buying opportunities since the big picture is still intact. The next round of earnings reports from solar makers should fuel another rally as the companies actually report stable to slightly higher module prices, negating your entire hypothesis here.
January 28, 2008 at 4:20 pm
PV Industry Oversupply in 2008
PV Industry Oversupply in 2008,I’ve recently gone from near-term bullish to bearish on the PV stocks based on two trends I see emerging for 2008-2010 – first, that cells and panels will be in major oversupply by year-end 2008 and second, that demand i…
March 20, 2008 at 5:13 pm
what does ASP stand for?
April 20, 2008 at 1:39 am
Jerome,
A lot has happened since you wrote your initial analysis. Solar PV stocks crashed but are coming back strong. VC money continues to pour into the solar sector despite your warning, but no one has had the temerity to launch a solar IPO. Your suggested time frame for PV oversupply and bust is still a long ways off, so obviously the jury is still out on your prognosis.
What has also happened is an ever increasing rate of acceleration in the price of oil. Now, I know some people like to say that oil is not generally used in generating electricity, so the price of oil doesn’t really effect solar, but these folks aren’t aware that the greatest cost in the value chain of coal (which is the major source of electricity generation) is the rail transport of the coal from mine to plant, and those choo-choos run on diesel, so, yes, the price of oil directly effects the solar business.
And some folks like to say that the current price of oil (roughly $115) is inflated due to speculation and other non-fundamentals, but those folks aren’t aware that guys like Boone Pickens don’t think that the world will ever be able to surpass production of more than this year’s 85 million barrels a day, and the biggest oil company in the world (XOM) has told their shareholders that they won’t be producing anymore oil (annually) through 2012 than they are today. And that the demand for oil in China, due to price controls, is virtually inelastic, and a Chinese recession really means 8% growth instead of 10%, so any ease in demand in the U.S. will have little effect in overall global demand.
And this is getting tedious, so I won’t even go into the non-environmental, non-oil cost pressures that will increasingly effect coal production in the next few years.
So, finally, in light of the virtual certainty that solar PV will be cost competitive with fossil fuels within the same time frame that you use in your analysis, do you still feel that there will be PV oversupply 2008-2010? Or do you feel that solar thermal, which is already at or below grid-parity with “new” coal plants, will somehow ace out PV?
And I’m not even bringing up the other two factors from my earlier post.
Now if there is a measure of vitriol in this missive it’s because whenever someone comes out with a myopic “short” analysis of solar (and there have been two other major wrong-headed critiques since your own), every time some one doesn’t bother to look around and connect all the dots in the global “energy paradigm,” well then my solar stocks go down, and I don’t like to short them, even for a minute. And I am embarrassed in front of my friends.
So please. It’s never too late to say you’re sorry… or wrong.
Alan Beattie
May 14, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Comments and a question:
With the benefit of 2020 hindsight and a trading mentality I’d say Jerome was pretty right, noting that trying to call fast moving industries as far out as a year with the opacity of solar supply (nameplate is not production) and demand (so subsidy driven) is extremely challenging. Solar companies started dropping almost immediately in Q1, bottoming in mid March after approx 50% declines in many cases. The trader in me notes that in industries like solar, with so much investor and speculator attention, we can easily ride several large price swings within a year as different points of view come in and out of favour.
However, the market generally has rebounded, Q1 results and FY 2008 expectations are ahead of analyst estimates, and we are back on the uptrend. Having caught both sides of the move is gratifying. Thus I recommend a trader’s perspective for these kinds of industries – you can get killed wait for fundamentals to reassert themselves.
Long term being ‘easy’ – GROWTH! – the mid term trend for solar companies is more difficult so I make my trading decisions on shorter time frames than a full year or two, to mitigate risk and maximize returns from current information flows. Too many posters have noted just how long markets can stay irrational, and this applies to both sides of the value coin.
Key Concern & Question: I have not seen any data on cost breakdowns, specifically the share of a panel’s price that is poly or mono silicon despite much research. If this is a large or very large proportion – what I infer at present – then a significant reduction in the costs of poly, passed thru to consumers, may reduce the cost of panels enough to stimulate demand greatly. These price adjustments would also occur quickly, in almost real time with the size of the supply glut, if there are sizable manufacturers without many LT silicon supply contracts – driving down panel prices quickly would be a great weapon against those with a lot of long term silicon purchase contracts.
Should this scenario happen (big drop in poly price + it being a big cost proportion)
- manufacturers with few long term silicon supply contracts may be significant short term beneficiaries.
- cost per kwh could fall enough that, in line with the 100% rise in therm coal prices and continued escalation of oil prices, governments find mandates like California’s Million Rooftops initiative politically palatable with not a large economic after taste. Demand could escalate quickly.
Does anybody have data on cost components and their relative proportionality? What % panel price reduction would occur with a 50% poly price reduction?
Disclosure: short term bullish (8,10,12 weeks) – reassessments and adjustments to opinion happening weekly
Alan Beattie – don’t muddy trading with emotion. There should be no problem or preference to being on the short side as long… and any trader is used to being wrong a lot of the time… embarrassment suggests holding religious strength points of view – these can wipe us out the game.
May 23, 2009 at 5:45 am
I should email you about it.